Note: closed polls immediately show up on the “Polls Archive” page, so you’ll be able to track voting there as we move along. I’ll make a new post every so often, as to avoid getting multiple pages deep in terms of comments. If you have an active conversation going in the previous post(s), by all means keep it going – just start new conversations here.
The methodology will be simple – I’ll post a poll with eight or ten players to choose from, and the player with the most votes gets the nod for that position. The plan for now is to leave polls live for 24 to 48 hours – if there is a run-away winner, we’ll come in on the short side, and if it’s close between two or more players, we’ll leave it open a bit longer. As for settings, assume whichever you personally prefer – the rankings should skew towards whatever settings the consensus uses, as well.
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sheesh it’s a coin-flip....
Wow, Brook Lopez that good? I have in my keeper league w/ 8th round value (we have keeper round values). I guess it’s a steal!
he’s very good and should only get better – that is indeed a steal
True but not that better. The way he plays, coupled with his limited mobility, cause his ceiling to be relatively low compared to his high-upside counterparts. However, he’s still an early-round pick IMO for yrs to come.
I’m curious when injured guys like Elton Brand and Gilbert Arenas start to get considered. I know they’re big risks but they also have a lot more upside than some of the guys in the poll, in my opinion.
seems like every time someone asks about a player, my answer is that they are coming up “soon”, but it turns out that it’s usually the case. i think you are going to find widely varying opinions on arenas and brand’s upsides at this point, but they both deserve consideration in general soon
True, but I tend to stray away from those types of players, picking them in the late rounds. I play it safe, and it has brought me high success thus far. This past season I was able to get Ginobili in the 11th round
Hi Matt.. Rondo ended up being kept in my league. Since he’s not available, I want a great 3 pt shooter.
Troy Murphy, Joe Johnson, Rashard Lewis, and Mo Williams are available.
Any of those guys you don’t like for next year? I’m leaning towards Murphy because I could also use the 10+ reb/gm. Do you think he can continue his great play next year?
Rashard would be my 2nd option.
Also, do you think Jameer Nelson will pick up where he left off? Is Alston a FA or will he still be in Orlando next year?
Thanks..
i don’t expect a major drop-off for murphy, in large part because i don’t expect the personnel around him to be any different and clearly the o’brien system suits him well. with dunleavy looking like he’ll be a non-factor for most of next season, murph will once again be featured prominently. frankly, i don’t dislike any of those options
alston has one more year on his deal, but i remember seeing quotes shortly after the trade that he anticipated coming off the bench behind nelson next season and had no problems with it. i do think jameer will be solid next season – his father’s death really affected his play in 07-08, and we saw a much better representation of what he can do this past season
early days, but I can’t imagine choosing Martin with the other available options. the injury risk is way too great for me to consider him at this point.
True, that guy has had a gimpy ankle for quite some time now. There’s no doubt in my mind that he can be a 1st-round pick, however, his injury woes plague him. I was fortunate to trade for him mid-season, only to have to drop him a couple wks after his historic game vs the Warriors
Rondo definitely deserves to be here at this point, but he shouldn’t be ahead of Calderon I don’t think, even with the age gap. Caldy’s entering his prime, with at least another 7-8 seasons left conceivably. Rondo might score more, but Jose will get way more assists, and have better %s. I’d also probably rank Wallace ahead of Rondo, but not K-Mart.
way more assists? it was 8.9 to 8.2 this season. and rondo had a higher FG% this season, although nobody’s FT% was higher than calderon’s (in the history of the league, that is). when choosing between the two, it’s threes and FT% or boards and steals
True. W/e flavor you want, you get. IMO, I wouldn’t hesitate to nab Calderon in favor of Rondo. Rondo has a more negative impact (FT%) but obviously poses more upside. Calderon is the opposite, and there are only a handful of players in the league that posts his sterling percentages.
Any PG that shoots 50%/98%/41%, has a league leading 4.24 A/T (compared to Rondo’s 3.15), and still gets you over a three and a steal a game is pure fantasy gold. I’ll take that over the extra 2.3 boards and 0.8 steals Rondo gets you any day. I might be a homer, but I think Calderon has more potential, and could up his assists next year.
Let’s wait and see if Calderon can make it through an entire season as a starter before you say he has 7-8 seasons left in the tank. Calderon is solid, but he has limited upside. He’ll never score more than 14 ppg.. And his FT% is kinda overrated. 2.3 attempts a game? Not enough to make a huge difference.
Same goes for Rondo.. 64% FT shooting isn’t ideal, but he takes just over 3 a game so it doesn’t hurt you nearly as much as someone like Dwight. And Rondo’s offensive game will continue to improve, so I’d be surprised if he isn’t shooting around 75% FTs and 16 ppg within the next couple years.
If you haven’t noticed, he’s completely taking over this Boston/Chicago series.. Bright future.
I’m just saying their age gap isn’t that big of a deal since he’s only 27 himself. True, he’s missed a few games here and there, but none of his injuries are lingering, and Rondo isn’t exactly indestructible either. He also did outscore Rondo this year 12.8 to 11.9, and I can see him improving next year just the same. And how can you say his FT% is overrated? Calderon went 151-154 this year, and Rondo went 172-268. Sure, it might not make a big difference on a per game basis, but over a whole season, particularly in a roto league, that will have a huge impact on your team’s overall FT%. I’m not taking anything away from Rondo, I think he’s definitely worthy of being in the conversation here, but you can get 2.3 extra rebounds elsewhere, I’d rather build a team around a more prototypical PG.
We’ll see.. But I’m pretty convinced Calderon is playing at his ceiling.
Rondo played through his injury, Calderon didn’t. And a sprained ankle can happen to anyone.. It’s easier to overlook that than Calderon’s hamstring injury, which did linger and stress out a lot of owners this year..
And what do you mean “prototypical” PG? Because a prototypical PG to me is a PG who averages a lot of assists and steals.. Rondo is quite strong in those areas..
Raptors had nothing to play for, so no reason to push him. Prototypical as in high assist, low turnover, ultra-efficient guard play. Rondo does get a lot of assists, but Calderon gets more, and the small difference in steals and rebounds isn’t worth the efficiency to me. 4.24, 151-154. The guy’s a machine.
can’t disagree that for roto, calderon is pretty much money. i’m not sure he’s got much upside from where he’s at either, though
He hasn’t taken the step into stardom yet, but he’s shown flashes, like when Ford went out last year, he was Nash-like, and a legitimate all star candidate. He has off nights, but he’s gotten better in points, assists, and threes every year over the past 3, so I don’t see why he can’t continue that trend given the Raps recent pulse and Bargnani flourishing (see next round). It all depends what they look like, if it’s Calderon, Delfino, Marion, Bosh, and Bargnani, he could be one of the best PGs.
Have to agree with capoltorta here. Rondo is a great young player with big upside but Calderon is simply a better 9 cat player heading into next season. Rondo will improve but so will Calderon (as was mentioned – he is just 27 and entering his prime NBA years). He contributes in every category except blocks and his AST:TO ratio is great. Calderon’s minutes and effectiveness were limited throughout this past season due to his nagging hamstring injury. However, he was great down the stretch (#13 per Yahoo Last Month (avg) ranking compared to Rondo’s #86 ranking). This is a huge ranking differential! If Calderon stays healthy, he will easily be a top 25 player with an improving Raptors team. This one is really a no-brainer in my opinion.
Calderon is more polished. But he wasn’t limited this year even though that’s what capoltorta keeps saying. Calderon averaged almost 35 mins a game most months. He has the potential for huge games. But he’ll never average more than 14 pts a game. And I really question his durability, until he starts 78+ games in one season I’ll continue to question it.
I think you’re forgetting that Calderon himself has only played in the league for 4 years, and two of those years he only started 11 games. Last year he played in all 82 games, and thrived when Ford went down. This year he only missed 14 games, and wasn’t rushed back given the team’s record. I think questioning his durability is a little premature, especially when he went off for:
13.3 pts, 10.7 ast, 2.3 rbd, 1.3 3ptm, 1.7 stl, 0.3 blk,
on .504 fg%, 1.000 ft%, .444 3pt%, with a 5.12 A/T.
over the last month. More polished? He’s just getting started. You can all take Rondo next year, I’ll take a top 20 player.
With the way Rondo seems to be running away with this vote, I wonder if he would have gone higher, had he been on the ballot earlier.
Would be interested to see Beasley and Tyrus Thomas up there soon, to see how much love they get. The consensus seems to be shying from the injury prone traditional 2nd/3rd rounders; Butler, Wallace, K-Mart etc…
yeah i’m a little surprised really, obviously i’d have had him earlier if i thought otherwise
capoltorta… Come up with a better argument than “the Raptors had nothing to play for, so no reason to push him.” What does that mean anyways? Did the coach tell him he wasn’t allowed to average 18 pts, 12 ast, 3 stl? I’m just wondering, because Calderon was playing about 35 minutes a game over the last 2.5 months of the season.
His splits are basically identical in each month. So yeah, he’s playing at his ceiling. But feel free to suggest some ridiculous projections for him next season.
Calderon – 194 rebounds, 74 steals
Rondo – 416 rebounds, 149 steals
If you still consider that a “small difference” then I’m done arguing because you’re clearly missing a few marbles.
Calderon is solid. But in a keeper, as you can see, Rondo is the clear pick. He has way more upside and a more complete game.
Well I don’t know if you noticed, I know I did, but the Raptors kinda sucked this year. When you’re fighting with Washington for last place you generally don’t want to rush your prime asset back from injury, especially when you can develop a young guy like Ukic. I wonder what the differentials would have been if they played the same amount of games. 2.3 rebounds and 0.8 steals a game?
You think his splits are identical? Take away those 16 games he played in Jan/Feb. where he played only 26 mins/game after coming back from injury and he averaged 13.2/9.6/3.1 the rest of the season, and yes I do think he’ll match that next year.
There is no way in hell the raptors were trying to develop roko ukic lmfao. Look for the raptors to sign a backup PG next year if calderon can’t keep healthy through the entire season.
Calderon is definitly a better 9 cat roto player than rondo but if you watch how the raptors play you can tell calderons assists are inflated and there isnt much room for it to increase. Calderon likes to only take open shots and majority of his ast come from him dumpings the ball to perimeter shooters that quickly take the shot.
In order for calderons points to increase he would have to take more diffuclt shots (in addition to the open shots he only takes now) and create for him self which would probably result in a decrease of his FG%.
haha ok, so maybe they weren’t developping ukic that much, but i do think he’s in their long term plans, even as a #3 pg. i can see the raps signing another pg at some point, but what’s even more likely is that the celtics do, or that marbury sticks around, so they won’t have to rely on rondo so heavily. either way, i don’t think calderon’s health is as much an issue as any other player randomly getting hurt.
i’ve seen every raptors game ever, and i can honestly say that other than parker/duncan, and paul/west, calderon/bosh is the next best pick and roll in the league. the way he slashes to the hoop, or finds bosh in the lane, or parker in the corner just seems easy to him. and all bias aside, he truly has one of the best jump shots in the league, as shown by his free throw shooting.
i’ll drop it now, i’m just sick of him being underrated. rondo’s good but calderon’s better.
Wow, Kevin Martin’s getting no love. Before last season, he would have ranked in the top 20 or so. I personally think he’s going to be back on his feet next year. If the Kings make any improvements this summer (big men, point guard, another scorer) then K-Mart should be back to 06-07 days of efficiency. He also needs to rest his ankle.
Even throughout this terrible year, he finished #7 in points, #5 in threes, and #1 in FTM for the 2nd straight year! (those are avg’s btw) His main flaw this year, FG%, isn’t so bad when you consider that he doesn’t take THAT many attempts from the field. Compare his 15.9 FGA with someone like Danny Granger who takes 19.1 FGA/game. I think he’ll be back next year w/ better FG%, less TOs and same everything else. That should put him back in top 20 territory.
i think what’s knocked him down most people’s lists is averaging 25 games on the inactive list the past two seasons. he could provide a nice ROI next season if he does stay healthy, particularly for roto
He is the western conference Ben Gordan, useful for scoring but thats it. He is someone you draft for team need depending on how your 1st couple of picks went (if you got rebounder defender types like howard and J-smith), but this poll is moving more towards individual multi-cat performers not players based on team need.
He’s more like a super rich man’s Ben Gordon.
Kmart was a multi-cat contributor for the past 2 years:
PTs, FTs, 3s, Stls, TOs, w/ decent FG% and Rebs.
I’m saying he should be back to those numbers next year. As Matt said, it will be a nice ROI if he stays healthy.
I think Jameer is being overlooked because of his injury he put up a better avg line then jose last year and is the same age yet Jose is top on the poll right now and jameers name isn’t even there
Because Jameer has 1/2 a season of great numbers, and 2 seasons of average numbers.. He isn’t proven enough to be a top 25 pick. And who knows how he’ll bounce back from his shoulder injury. Too risky and too unproven. He obviously has potential though.
I agree with Ashley. Also, w/ help from Rafer Alston, Jameer might go back to playing sub-30 min/game.
i think nelson is a guy that will really very in terms of ADP next season, and for good reason. he only averaged 31 mpg this season, so excessive playing time really isn’t the issue. his shoulder should be good to go next season, although camp updates will help sort things out. also the potential exists for hedo to opt out and look for more money elsewhere, which makes the rotation much more interesting. i don’t plan on shying away from him in drafts next season, but he may be gone before i’m really comfortable taking him
At this point, I like Monta Ellis. It appears he will be healthy and he has been given the keys in Golden State. His previous season was strong and I expect him to perform at that level.
That being said, he should be available much later in the draft and I wouldn’t take him this high.
Monta’s way too risky here. Even after he came back from his injury he was dinged up all the time. His previous season was alongside Baron Davis.
agreed that he’s risky, but being another 5-plus months removed from that injury should mean good things. another risk/reward pick. even though he had to shut it down, it was encouraging to see his FG% improve over a short time this season
Wow, some of these keeper rankings are ridiculous.
Dwight Howard at #6! Are we playing in the same type of Yahoo default scoring leagues here? Howard barely cracked the top 50 (literally at #50) this year per Yahoo season avg ranks. He was well below the top 50 in all his other years. You’re telling me that he’s going to jump all the way into the top 10 within the next couple of seasons?? I don’t think so. His absolutely atrocious high volume FT% and high TO rate for a Center seriously hurts his forward looking value – period.
Also, Brooke Lopez at #21?? This guy is going to be a good pro with a long career but at this point he has not shown the upside to be ranked this high. How is he any different than Al Horford?
Carmelo, Josh Smith, Aldridge, Iguodala, Joe Smith – none of these guys belong in the top 25. We’ve either seen their best season already or they are simply better real life than fantasy players. For 1 season and keeper purposes, I would easily take Calderon, G-Wallace, Bargnani, and even Ty Thomas over these guys.
First time poster by the way. Great website Mr. Buser. It’s really nice to see you responding and interacting with the posters. Football and Baseball dominate the fantasy scene, so it’s great to see a site where we can talk Hoops all year round. Looking forward to contributing my 2 cents.
I’ve argued against all those players. Some of these people aren’t too bright. But most of the people here care more about name recognition and how flashy a player is, and that has nothing to do with fantasy value.. Dwight Howard being an example.
The only person you listed that I disagree with is Brook Lopez. He was ranked 25 based on season totals, as a 20 year old rookie. Horford is a solid player, but Lopez has much more upside. Horford’s production, like most of the Hawks’ starters, has stalled.. I don’t see him being much of an offensive force and he’s playing out of position.
As a starter Lopez averaged 13.8 pts, 8.4 reb, 1.9 blk, 80% FT, 54% FG
I can see him easily averaging 16 pts, 9.5 reb, 2 blk with great %’s next year and he should continue to get better as he gains more confidence.
First of all, I assume Mookie means Joe Johnson, not Joe Smith, I don’t think anyone has Joe Smith in the top 25.
Second, I have to challenge the idea that the guys listed have seen their best season. Guards in the NBA usually peak around 27, forwards and centers vary a bit more depending on their style of play, but generally they usually peak a bit later than that. Let’s look at the ages of the guys you have a gripe about –
Carmelo – 24.
Smoov – 23.
Aldridge – 23.
Iguodala – 25.
Joe (Johnson?) – 27
Is it really surprising that Carmelo didn’t develop too well playing next to AI? Smoov is probably the most athletically gifted guy in the league, and he’s 23. Have we seen Bynum’s best season too? I’m not saying Aldridge is the 24th best player to have in a keeper league, but come on, best season behind him? Better in real life than fantasy? What does that even mean? Are you calling him Shane Battier?
P.S. Please, nobody say anything good about Shane Battier.
Aldridge is the only guy you listed that I think it still getting better.
Josh Smith stopped getting better 2 or 3 years ago. The guys on TNT were ragging on Smith at halftime because he can only dunk. It was deja vu because that’s exactly what they said last year.. And it’s what they’ll say about him next year also. The guy can’t even make FTs anymore.
Joe Johnson is solid, but his best season was 2 years ago I think. He’s always really good through 60 games, then he seems to fade.
Melo will never average 28 pts again and he won’t get you any defensive stats, so I’ll never think of him as an elite fantasy player.
Iguodala is a good player, makes clutch shots. But he struggled with Brand in the lineup, so I wouldn’t take him in the 3rd round.
B_rad, you’re right, I meant Joe Johnson (definitely not Joe Smith!).
Ashley, you’ve pretty much said it best in your post regarding the players that I called out. I’ll add a few a my thoughts:
Josh Smith is an unmotivated bum that got his big contract and, unless Mike Woodson gets fired, is not going to perform up to his potential. If the Hawks lose to the Heat and Woodson gets canned, then things could change. J-Smoove was a complete bust this year considering that most took him in the late 2nd round. Good luck if you want to waste a top 20 pick on him next year.
Melo is the perfect example of a better real life player than fantasy player. For the most part, this means that he’s a big scorer but doesn’t provide enough in the other stat lines to truly be an elite fantasy player.
Iggy and Joe Johnson are solid but I don’t think that they are going to step up their game beyond what we’ve already seen.
As for Lopez – Ashley, you provide a pretty strong argument for his ranking. It would seem that he should continue to improve and ultimately provide elite stats from the C position. With him I guess it just comes down to a gut feeling that I don’t think he will be able to provide these great stats consistently. I don’t see him as that special of a player with tremendous upside.
Aldridge has the talent and potential to be great but I just don’t see him getting the opportunity with the Blazers. Roy is the big dog in Portland and the team is deep with many talented young players. It’s still way to early to call Oden a bust but obviously the Blazers made a huge mistake in picking him over Durant. Regardless, they will do whatever it takes to incorporate Oden into the mix and this will directly affect LaMarcus’ rebounding and block totals. Also, players like Bayless, Rudy, and even Oden will limit his future scoring ceiling. His game is very good and efficient; however, I see him with limited opportunities and upside on the Blazers.
I’m not sure if Mike Woodson is the problem in Atlanta, but there is a ton of talent on that team, mostly very young. It’s probably futile to argue about Josh Smith, but when he’s not battling an injury he’ll give you 17pts, 8 rebs, almost 3 blocks, 1.5 steals, and 3 assists per game. I’ll take it.
As for Carmelo providing nothing except points: His fg% was trending up until this injury ridden year. It was above 49% in 07-08 with pretty high volume. Aside from 25+ points he gets you about 7 boards, a steal and 3.5 assists, and he has developed a three point shot hitting a three per game last year at almost 40%.
I actually agree with you that we’re close to or at the ceiling for Iggy and Johnson, but I guess I’ll take that. And I personally wouldn’t take Aldridge at 24, but he’d be on my mind. Of course there’s going to be a little bit of shuffling in your personal rankings, but all of these guys deserve consideration at this point.
Haha, good stuff. It is truly messed up to rip on the likes of Aldridge and Joe Johnson. I had them in the majority of my leagues, and they definitely were key in catapulting me to the top.
Don’t get me wrong here, I know that Johnson, Aldridge, Iggy, and Lopez are all very good fantasy players. I guess it really doesn’t matter whether these guys shift up or down in the keeper rankings by 10 spots or so. It’s all speculation on their future stats anyways. They are all very good players and have some great years still left.
I can’t disagree enough with the Howard and J-Smoove rankings though. If someone wants to waste a 1st and then 2nd round pick on them, then the odds of them winning their league are cut dramatically.
“How is he any different than Al Horford?”
Check out his Yao-like FT%, and his BLK. ’nuff said.
It all depends on what settings you use. In roto howard is obviously a liability but in H2H he dominates 2 cats plus is a 20 pt scoreer with great FG%, and he is durable and young and ever improving.
Matt,
is there any way of knowing the percentage of championship winning teams that owned each player? One of the analysts for the
NBA.com fantasy game mentioned numbers like this last year, but I dont know if this can be done with Yahoo.
go to your yahoo league and under the ‘research’ tab click MVPs. not a complete list, but the top players are listed for both h2h and roto
i don’t know if there’s anything to this, but 19 of the top 50 ‘mvps’ were C-eligible this year. i know centers were at a premium a few years ago, but i think it’s much deeper now with the emergence of guys like nene, lopez, murphy, bargnani, millsap, turiaf, andersen, etc. i’m gonna think twice before reaching for camby next year.
which got me wondering how the top 100 broke down by position:
PG – 17
PG/SG – 12
SG – 4
SG/SF – 17
SG/SF/PF – 2
SF – 4
SF/PF – 11
SF/PF/C – 4
PF – 3
PF/C – 20
C – 6
or by eligibility: PG – 29, SG – 35, SF – 38, PF – 40, C – 30
i guess there really isn’t a pattern to take away from this, except that forwards are deeper than guards, which we all already knew. still a worthy exercise i think.
if anything, it might bump calderon ahead of aldridge and melo on my cheat sheet next year.
I’ve got a question concerning keepers. I have D-Wade, Jefferson, Calderon, C. Butler, Rose, and G. Wallace as my top contributors. I can only keep 3. I know Wade and Jefferson for sure, but who should be my 3rd? (i’m thinking it’s between Calderon and Rose?)
Sucks that you can only keep 3 of them.. I’d go with Rose, too much upside.
you probably have to go with rose, although you could at least make an argument for any of the other players if it’s roto. can you make a 2-for-1 trade?
How long do you get to keep each keeper player on your roster? If you are looking for a player to contribute and play at an elite fantasy level within the next 2 seasons, then Rose is NOT your guy. Rose may someday be great for fantasy but I doubt it’s going to happen next year. He does not contribute at all in 3′s, his steals are weak for a PG, and his AST:TO ratio is not that good. His Yahoo last month avg put him at #52, which obviously shows great improvement, but I still think he’s at least 2 years away from being a big time contributor (and that’s if he adds a 3 point shot to his game). Calderon will outperform him for at least the next 2 seasons. Keep the for sure elite PG, which is Calderon.
Don’t underestimate how much a player can improve over the offseason. If a player going to be a superstar, it’ll happen right away. Rose has too much potential to pass over. CP3 and Deron didn’t put up monster numbers their rookie seasons.
Paul was top 20 player his rookie year; maybe not “monster” numbers but 16.1 ppg, 0.6 3pg, 5.1 rpg, 7.8 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.1 bpg, 2.3 topg, 43.0% fg, and 84.7% ft is very, very good. A PG with over 5 rpg, 7 apg, and 2 spg is very significant. There was no doubt he was going to be good. Williams was restrained by Sloan and played a fair amount of SG, and had a top 150 rookie season, but Rose was given the PG keys from the get go. That’s a huge difference if you are comparing Rose to Williams. Rose certainly has potential, but I agree with mookie that Calderon will contribute better at least next year over Rose.
Also from a philosophy standpoint, in 3-keeper league I’d bank less on potential and go for the now. Different story with a 6-keeper league, you’ll take a couple of better potential players over an established player.
If Brook Lopez is that high, who’s to say Marc Gasol shouldn’t be up here?
lopez has more points, blocks, rebounds and will have a larger role with his team next year. . . gasol’s no slouch, but his upside isn’t nearly as high in my opinion.
even though he was also a rookie, gasol is three-plus years older than lopez, as well. agree with b_rad in that he’s no slouch, but i’m not sure he’s going to improve all that much
Is anyone else kinda suprised David Lee is winning right now? I’m shocked for a couple reasons 1) Its unknown where he will be next season, his numbers are inflated playing for D’Antoni in New York this season and they’ll fall if he goes just about anywhere else in the league. 2) His main stats are solid points, excellent rebounds, and excellent FG%. I always feel like points and rebounds especially can be gotten at just about any point in the draft. I don’t see a reason to lock up a keeper who doesn’t provide much else.
Obviously people disagree, I’m kinda curious why.
not shocked he’s winning, although I agree in that I wouldnt take him here. I went with West who is just coming into his prime and has shown a few years of consistent production in the top 25-35 range. I dont expect he’ll get any better, but then again he doesnt really need to. Not a sexy pick, but solid.
After the year Troy Murphy put up this year – only 28 years old – I think he deserves some consideration here. A very unique combination of rebounds and treys with good percentages.
By last years performance alone, he should already be off the board. However, people tend to be a little skeptical of a repeat after a career year from someone who has been in the league this long. But I agree that he should be on the ballot now.
Yeah, I had Troy last season and was really borderline on keeping him. he was incredible but in the end I decided this year might be just a fluke. I did have West and Butler too though and had Murphy ahead of both of them. So I assume he’ll be on the poll soon.
How about Hawes?
I know my expectations about him are way too high but if SAC doesn’t get Griffin he’ll be in good shape next year.
i like him a lot, too. i may have to expand the poll to 20 choices heh
im surprised david lee is going this high. i see him as a valuable role player with his FG and boards but at this point in the draft (3rd round) I am still going for best value available which is why I picked kevin martin. the dude may have injury concerns but he has the ability to finish in the top 15.
Look up about 3 posts
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Shouldn’t we be getting to Millsap soon? He will be starting somewhere next season, and when Boozer was injured he was averaging about 18 points, 11 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, and 1 steal.
Sorry I meant 1 block and 1.8 steals.
That’s what he averaged for the month of December but he couldn’t handle the workload.. His body was breaking down, he even admitted it.
I don’t know if he’s capable of handling more than 30 mins a game.
He went down from 18.6 pts, 11.5 reb in December to 16 pts, 10.6 reb in January to 10.6 pts, 8.6 reb (40.6% FG) in February.
So I don’t think he would be able to handle 30+ minutes for 82 games and I don’t consider him a top 40 pick.
it had less to do with handling the workload than handling the workload with a knee he hurt in mid-dec. he was playing 40+ minutes after boozer got hurt, and then he got hurt himself but only missed sporadic games. is your assumption that he’ll be hitting the inactive list consistently if he does end up starting somewhere?
pretty much. i respect the guy, he gives 110% every game. but he’s physically overmatched most games and i don’t believe his body can handle 35 mins a game for 80+ games. i think he’s most effective coming off the bench.
Where is Mike Conley??? The guy blew up after he was finally given the keys to the offense and was able to play 35+ minutes a game. Gay is just about to be the next keeper voted into the rankings and Mayo is listed as well. Conley will be better than both of them next year. His 3pt and steals combo is already great and he’ll continue to improve. The assists are good enough and should go up and the rebounds from a PG are very good. Oh yeah, he’s also only going to be just 22 when next season starts and was the #4 pick 2 years ago. I can’t wait until guys take Rondo and Rose in rounds 2 & 3 next year. I’ll gladly steal Conley in round 5 or 6.
I agree he should be getting some consideration soon. My team was stacked (Wade, Granger, Billups, Kidd, Jamison, Lee, B. Lopez, Sheed, Terry, A. Miller, AK, Randolph and of course Conley) and I gotta say in the last 2 months Conley was easily one of my top guys. His post all-star stats are very encouraging and he is going into next season with a ton of confidence. I only get to keep 4 guys in my league and Conley is definately in contention for one of those spots.
I’ll be defending the crown in a 20 team league next year. 10 cats including OR, DR, Ast:TO, with the other 7 being the standards. We get 3 keepers this year. I have Dwight, Deron, and conventional wisdom would say Iggy. I also have Conley, T.Young and Randolph. I offered another manager with poor keepers Conley and Young for their 1st round pick (with 60 players removed from the pool). They are still mulling this over. Have also considered hanging on to Conley or even Randolph and shopping Iggy for a first round pick. Thoughts?
Which randolph?
Anthony
Iggy is a good fit with Dwight’s FT but not sure how he will do with Brand back. Who would you get at the first pick?
Iggy is a good fit with Dwight and Deron, but Im also concerned about Brand. Perhaps Im just overthinking this. Hard to know who would be available with the 1st pick, but there should still be some top 50 guys available.
Rudy Gay is this high also? I feel like I would take just about anyone on the list over him after last season. I mean his average per game Yahoo Rank is 120. He also declined slightly in literally every single fantasy category while playing the same amount of minutes. He dropped in FG%, FT%, 3PM, PTs, Reb, Assists, Stl, and Blk, while his TOs rose at the same time.
Considering those drops I have to think that as the guys around him (Mayo, Conley, and Gasol) all continue to get better it will just eat into his stats.
Obviously people are voting for him, can someone who did explain to me why he should be going this high?
(Crickets chirping)
Ummm… He’s young? If i had to defend him i would say only this – he has shown the potential to be in the 1-1-1 club (Threes,Steals,Blocks) but really that’s his scorecard (out of ten) for this past season. My guess is the people voting for him are a season late – the hype and chants of upside have carried over from last summer. By the way – when can i vote on Stromile Swift?
Can somebody help me understand why Biedrins is still on the polls? You have to admit a young C who gets those kind of blocks and rebounds is a nice chip to build around in a keeper. It seems like PG’s are getting way more love than C’s here – despite the ever-decreasing talent at the C spot compared with the rise of young PG’s. I know the FT% is a small travesty but c’mon people?
Are you kidding me?
Boozer and maybe Monta Ellis are the only two people on this poll that I’d take Biedrins over. His FT% is brutal. Zaza Pachulia could average 12 pts and 12 rebounds in that offense! It’s not hard for a center to get rebounds when Stephen Jackson is the PF! Biedrins is a very passive player and the emergence of Randolph and Wright will hurt Biedrins’ value a lot.
Ashley… I’ve seen your work so i’ve got little to say – I’ll argue at a wall some other time.
My point was simply this – any guard or swingman left on the board is not as good to build around in a keeper league than a starting C on a Don Nelson team. I guess i’ll ask you only this – knowing how long it takes a C to develop post moves and an offensive game – would you really rather have Spencer Hawes or Marc Gasol over Biedrins on account of a “passive game?”
Honestly if you weren’t lucky enough to grab one of these other C’s – i bet by round 3 you’re looking for huge blocks, huge rebounds, and guaranteed time (and no – Randolph and Wright are not viable centers – even in nelson’s cracked brain – and would not steal PT and only did because of lingering ankle injuries on Biedrins this year) instead of 28 – 5 of Gay-type players.
biedrins was 7th in per-game rank this season when you omit FT% (at just over 30 mpg), so he’s definitely someone you can build around in h2h. ashley, what makes you call biedrins a ‘passive’ player?
*small sample size alert – in games where randolph or wright (or both) played 25 minutes this season, biedrins averaged 9.3 points on 55% shooting, 10.6 boards, 2.4 assists, 0.9 steals, and 1.7 blocks in 31 minutes
Is that small sample size supposed to be encouraging for Biedrins?
Biedrins doesn’t provide enough offense to warrant a pick this early. I guess instead of ‘passive’ what I meant was that the offense doesn’t run through him, there are about 3 or 4 options ahead of him. He probably goes 5+ possessions multiple times a game without touching the ball on offense. He has no jumpshot, and can’t make FTs. He’s a twig version of Dwight Howard.
Guys like Wright and Randolph have so much more upside than Biedrins. Why take the risk taking Biedrins this early when you’re simply hoping he can maintain his numbers from last year?
Even though Tyrus doesn’t have “C” eligibility, I’ll take him over Biedrins right here.
his no-FT% per-game ranks were 29 and 31 the previous two seasons despite less than 30 mpg and he’s only 23, so i think there’s pretty good reason to have some optimism that he’s trending upward. i voted for martin, so i’m not saying he’s the man right now, but i don’t think he should be summarily dismissed either
I’d rather have Hawes later in the draft, no-brainer. And sorry, I’m just not interested in taking players with limited upside and any major flaws in the first 3 rounds. Thanks for not arguing with me, because I don’t really care where you want to take Biedrins. Take him in the 3rd rd if you want, but like I said.. I’d rather have 80% of the guys on the current poll instead of Biedrins.
“Ashley… I’ve seen your work so i’ve got little to say – I’ll argue at a wall some other time.”
still sniggering
We keep 5 players, how about some input on who I should keep:
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Martin
Jose Calderon
Steve Nash
Vince Carter
Russell Westbrook
Brook Lopez
Obviously Dirk, and I love Kevin Martin if he can ever stay healthy. I’m a Raps fan, so Calderon gets the benefit there, but I can’t make a final decision. Any suggestions?
what are the settings?
Standard 9-cat h2h…
tough one but i’d go with dirk, martin, calderon, lopez, and nash. westbrook isn’t a bad option but you’ve got a team of players that are strong in %s, so westbrook negates a lot of your FG% base. depending on your leaguemates, maybe you could keep westbrook and trade him? if you’ve got a high pick, you may be able to select someone you didn’t keep in rd 1 anyway
I do set myself up really well with the %’s if I go with those 5, but the tough decision will be based on the potential for Westbrook next year. Do you see any hope for his FG% to improve next year?
I won the league this past year (had a strong supporting cast), so I’m looking at a 12th pick in the first round. Carter wouldn’t fall that far, I guess there is a chance Westbrook would…
Go with Dirk, Calderon, Nash, & Lopez for sure. The last spot is a toss-up between Carter & Martin. There’s a strong case for each but I say go for Martin. He’s 6 years younger than Carter and is due for a bounce back season after an injury plagued past season. His FG% should at least bounce back to the .450% level. If the Kings select a solid coach who is going to push the tempo, then this would further solidify him as your keeper choice.
Some on this board will definitely urge you to keep Westbrook. Do NOT fall for their young PG hype. Westbrook’s FG% and TO are brutal. Even in a keeper league, the goal is to win now. Westbrook had a decent rookie year but he’s far from a sure thing. Do not even consider keeping him over either Nash or Calderon (or any of the others for that matter).
I got to agree with mookieblaylock.
Keep Kevin martin over Carter. I personally don’t like Martin that much as a fantasy player because at this point he seems to be still one dimensional, but I believe Carter’s stats will be trending downwards starting next year. Not good for a keeper candidate.
As for westbrook I think it’s not necessary to keep him at this point. Nash’s overall stats are much better than westbrooks. Both will kill you in TO, but wouldn’t you rather have a point guard who will average in the top 3 in assists and contribute in FG percentage and minimally in FT. I also expect Nash’s PPG to remain at 15 or possibly higher if Gentry stays as coach or he gets traded to the knicks. Only downside in Nash is he is really old, but I’m sure you could try to draft a keeper prospect.
Probably Lopez and Carter. That would give you a solid foundation at each position. Although I really like Nash next year, because in Alvin Gentry’s system he was putting up near 2007 numbers.
can i get your opinions on who i should keep in my 12 team H2H league. we keep 4 and i have to choose between. gasol, yao, murphy, calderon and billups. its a real tough choice for me… should i try to package 2 and go for a top 5 player??
if thats an option, you certainly should pursue it